Crush Imposter Syndrome!

✨ Hello, I'm Fran, Your NLP & Business Coach. In this episode, I'm interviewing Alison Blackler.

Meet Alison — a passionate transformational mind coach, author, and TEDx speaker with 30+ years studying the human mind. 

Her journey is fueled by boundless curiosity, uncompromising honesty, and a burning desire to make a real difference. 

She founded 2minds to inspire, empower, and unlock your full potential. 

Alison specialises in neuroscience-backed strategies to build unshakable confidence, kick imposter syndrome, and master the conversations that shape your life.

You can connect to Alison in the following ways ⬇️
https://2-minds.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/alison2minds/

Find me @ www.melancholymentor.com

* As a coach, I listen without judgment, understanding that others views may differ from my own.

#nlpcoach #nlpcoaching #creativity #inspiration

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:48 What Imposter Syndrome Really Is
• 5:45 Five Behaviour Patterns To Watch
• 9:30 The Cost Of Perfection And Comparison
• 13:50 Simple Wins And Brain-Friendly Habits
• 20:30 Noticing Triggers And Old Voices
• 25:45 Success, Doubt, And Taking Action
• 30:15 Belonging, Individuality, And Fit
• 35:20 Try It On: Building Your Toolkit
• 41:00 Public Speaking Fears And Origins
• 47:20 Rewriting Scripts And Practising

Transcript

Fran: 0:00

Hello everyone, welcome to the Melancholy Coaching Podcast. I'm Fran, your host and NLP coach. Join me as I interview inspiring business owners and self-improvement seekers about their experiences whilst delving into personal development, motivation and strategies for overcoming challenges. Let's ignite our creative potential together. Hello and welcome to Melancholy Coaching Podcast. I'm Fran, your NLP coach, and I'm excited to introduce an inspiring guest. Passionate transformational mind coach, author, and TEDx speaker who has spent over 30 years diving deep into the human mind. Her journey is fueled by boundless curiosity, uncompromising honesty, and a burning desire to make a real difference in people's lives. She founded Two Minds as a platform to inspire, empower, and help you unlock your full potential. Her approach goes far beyond surface level advice. She specializes in neuroscience-backed strategies designed to help you build unshakable confidence, kick imposter syndrome to the curb, and master those tricky conversations that shape your personal and professional life. Alison, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you, Fran. That was such a lovely explanation of what I do. I was listening thinking that sounds good. I know. It's amazing, isn't it? I particularly like the we're gonna get to imposter syndrome actually, because I particularly like that that is referenced. How how this goes is I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions and we'll just have a little conversation around it, if that's okay with you. Sure. Ask away. Amazing. So the first one I've got is about imposter syndrome. So it's can you explain imposter syndrome in plain, accessible terms for the listeners, please?

Alison: 1:59

I think the first thing I want to say is the name imposter syndrome implies that there's something wrong with us when we if we do have what people talk about imposter syndrome. So I don't like the name syndrome. I think it definitely is the wrong term, but people are stuck with it, aren't we? So I think that's the first thing I often say when I talk about imposter syndrome is the name syndrome sounds like some horrible thing. And often with imposter syndrome, we are behaving or doing things for a reason. So often the the behaviours that come out of imposter syndrome, they're to support us in a way, but we get lost in the details. So I'll explain what I mean by that. So the thing with imposter syndrome is we usually have a set of behaviours that drop out of that. And the the five that I like to talk about is perfectionism, where we're never quite satisfied that we can put something out there or we can finish something. Being an expert, so you're constantly on courses, you're constantly digesting things, you're constantly trying to do it, and you're never really quite satisfied with yourself. High expectations, but but so high that you're always going to feel like you are missing out or not not achieving your goals, not asking for help, feeling like you've got to do everything yourself. And and the last one is being able to and sort of holding yourself internally holding yourself accountable for everything. So you end up sort of doing too much for other people. Now, the thing that I always say with imposter syndrome is we if you suffer with it, if you if any of those things resonate, what we've got to be mindful of is two things. One, chances are it happens to the more success, the more successful you are, the more likely you are to have some of these thoughts. But the other thing that I always like to say is of course we want things to be perfect, of course we want to be able to do things ourselves and not have other people help us, of course we want to set high expectations and hopes and dreams for ourselves. So a lot of the challenges that we have with with these things is it is quite normal. It's not a syndrome. It's normal to want these things. But one of the things that I observe is at what expense. So if your perfectionism has has got an expense which is you never ever put anything out, you never finish anything, you never quite do that thing, then that's an expense. It's costing you in your life or in your business or in your work. You know, if asking for help feels uncomfortable because we think that that's saying to us that we are less than or we are a failure because we need to ask for help, then obviously that becomes the bit that's not so good. So for me, it's always looking individually at what it is that's going on and what can we do, or where can we put our attention so that it's different rather than feel like somebody is going to tap you on the shoulder and say, you know, what do you think you're doing here? kind of thing. That's usually what people talk about having the fear of. But I think when we look at the way that we live today and social media and websites and bits and pieces, you know, we one of the things that fuels imposter syndrome is comparison, is comparing ourselves. That's interesting.

Fran: 5:31

It's an interesting thing to know. Yeah.

Alison: 5:33

Yeah. So you so we're constantly looking at what everyone else is doing, and then we're looking at ourselves and we're thinking, well, I'm not perfect, or the thing that I'm doing is not perfect, or or they look like they've they're doing all that on their own, and that means I'm less than because I need help, and all it's all complete rubbish. Because we can't compare ourselves, we don't know what every what everyone else is doing. And one of my big things is to help us with things like imposter syndrome and the and the behaviours that drop out of it is stay in your own lane. Yeah. Yes, you can look at others, do you? You can look at others for inspiration and think, wow, yeah, I'd like or like to do that. But if you spend time wondering and making up in our minds what everyone else is doing, the chances are it won't be comparing like for like, which means you are probably going to fuel that those doubts and that that feeling of impostor, that feeling that somebody's going to catch you out, or you know, people, you know, when we talk about people needing to know everything, you know, they feel like if if I don't know everything, uh, you know, I'll be caught out. And this is this internal chit-chat that goes on that is imposter or can feel like an imposter.

Fran: 6:55

There must be some just really kind of easy, gentle things that can help with that, you know, possibly like I know that you go a lot deeper because you know, I've I've seen your TED talk and I've kind of heard some of the things that you, you know, you're putting out there. I kind of sit more at the surface with things, and it's just that gentle suggestion and that gentle just little seed planting to let things grow. So one of the things that I like to encourage people to do is look for the wins and you know, like collect evidence of it, get yourself a little book going of, you know, any compliments and things like that. Is that too surface level, do you think, to start helping?

Alison: 7:38

I know, I think it's brilliant. I always think of all these little things, and sometimes they are the simplest things, they don't have to be anything big and fancy, but from a brain perspective, it loves repetition and it loves to know what it's doing. So we get so bogged down with all of the things that we need to be doing. And I always think of it a bit like a jigsaw, so little tiny things make up the big jigsaw, and they're all every piece is important. So I, you know, I'm a big fan of helping people do some of the simple stuff. You know, if you can get to the end of your day and look for a win, even if it was a what you might think is insignificant, and are able to give yourself a moment where you say, Yeah, I did good there, then you are cementing that little piece of the jigsaw into your, into your into your world. And I think it's important. I think sometimes we get overwhelmed thinking that it's complicated the things that we need to do. The brain is complicated, but all these little things help us build up that muscle almost in your mind for feeling more settled with yourself, for feeling more confident, of feeling like you do, you can believe in yourself. You know, one of the things that I think is really fascinating is you know, you'll often see on Instagram, you know, believe in yourself and do this and do that. And you know, yeah, of course, but how? You know, it's not easy. The brain will be screaming at you saying, No, you know, no one will want to speak to you, you've got nothing to say, you're not, you know, you've not got anything that's new or important, and it's all just noise in your head that doesn't really exist, but it will have you believing whatever it is that you are thinking if you follow it. So some of these small techniques really help to start.

Fran: 9:33

So it's also about having a place to start, isn't it? Because when you said like how, but it's also like where, you know, how do you start these things?

Alison: 9:41

Yeah. Well, that's where little things, simple things, can be you've started now. You know, so often when you actually ask somebody, you know, what they're doing, it's like, well, you've started. You know, we've got this thing of yeah, I need to, I need to do this, I should be doing this, I ought to be doing this. What are you doing? Pause and notice what are you doing, what is going well. And that's your little wins at the end of the day. Start with that, build on that, get that where you are, thinking about that. Because so often, if you talk about imposter syndromes, people often describe they're constantly focused on the things that they didn't get done that day. Well, that creates an internal dialogue that says, Well, you're not good enough. You know, you you haven't achieved everything. I bet everybody else has achieved everything today, which is also rubbish.

Fran: 10:30

The feel feelings of imposter syndrome can actually be quite debilitating.

Alison: 10:33

Very much.

Fran: 10:34

Like I'm saying about you know, coming at it from a surface level, but this this can be really debilitating for people and really hold them back.

Alison: 10:41

It really can. It to be if you believe that any of those things, because remember that the the behaviors that we put in place, so perfectionism, needing to know everything, being not wanting to ask for help, they're all protective behaviors that are making trying to make us feel better about this feeling that we've got inside. But the feeling is usually self-created because it's not true, but it's possibly because we're comparing, or we might be listening to an old voice, could be a parent's voice, it could be a real old voice in your head that isn't really relevant today, it's completely outdated, but we still listen to it. So we have to be aware of what we're doing before we can change it. I think where a lot of people go wrong is the sort of diving into the I've got to change all this, but you've actually got to start being more mindful about what your mind is thinking because it's trying to protect you. And then you can start to put some small changes in, and then you build from there. And I'm living proof of that. I wasn't confident when I was younger, you know, at all. I didn't have self-belief at all. And I, you know, I want to say that because I think it's important to speak about the fact that I didn't have it and I've worked hard, it's not a quick fix, but I'm living proof that, you know, I can go from being somebody who internally was very unsure and to to ultimately standing on a TEDx stage, you know, which if I can do it, anyone can do it. Yeah. Well, I want people to know that, you know, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be a TEDx stage. But if anyone's listening today and you've got something that you want to do, it's not a quick fix and there's no point in thinking like that. But whatever your thing is that you want to do, find a way. Look at all these little things that can help get you to that place, whatever that place is for you.

Fran: 12:31

With with imposter syndrome, specifically about imposter syndrome, I'd never actually heard of it until more recently. So it's probably maybe in about the last four years that I've actually realized that it's a thing.

Alison: 12:45

Yeah.

Fran: 12:46

However, some of the things that you've described, I I was ticking them off in my mind as having kind of gone through that. Um, so quite likely there was imposter syndrome involved, but I just didn't realise that it was a thing. So I can't be the only one that doesn't realise that it's a thing.

Alison: 13:05

Yeah. I I think imposter syndrome is a term that's like an umbrella. If you imagine it's an umbrella, and it underneath the umbrella are lots of threads of behaviors and thoughts that people have. And you don't have to do all of them to have imposter syndrome. But my big thing that that I said earlier, and I'll say it again, is we only need to change things that are creating that feeling of stuck. You know, if you like doing things perfectly and it works for you and you're okay with it, fill your boots. But if you then can't finish anything, you dare put something out there on socials or you what whatever it might be, then we need to think about okay, how are we going to work with this? And that's where it's, you know, lots and lots of different things talking about it, just writing down what you what your thoughts are about yourself, you know, whatever that might be, just see it written down, it can change everything.

Fran: 14:03

Well, I've I've got an example of when it was around the time that I first started to encounter imposter syndrome. So I've I was a carer, predominantly a carer for over 25 years, and then I've had a lot of wonderful roles within that. And during, I've got to mention the pandemic. So during the pandemic, I retrained as a neurolinguistic programming coach. So I went down a different route and retrained. And within that, that started because I was trying to help myself through depression. So I've got a very long history of depression, a very, you know, complex history of depression. And I've tried to help myself over the years, and nothing has quite been sustainable. So I started doing little courses during the pandemic on mindfulness, and you know, I kind of um just searched around online and it led me to coaching. And then I wanted a meditation certificate, and I wanted this and I wanted that, and I realized that I'd stopped searching in that pursuit of helping myself and reinforcing my mind and giving myself resources and a toolkit, and I'd stepped into it's not good enough, I'm not good enough, I need more, I need more, I need more. So presumably that was a form of imposter syndrome that I started to go through and didn't actually quite realise what I was doing at the time.

Alison: 15:24

But I think that's where a lot of us are doing things, and it's it isn't until you either hear somebody having a conversation like we are, or somebody asks you something that you then go, actually, yeah, this is kind of making me feel a bit uncomfortable, a bit sticky. And I think that's where we can just say it's okay. It's okay. Just you've just noticed something that is there for a reason, you know, your desire to develop yourself, and then while you were there, you've learned, oh, well, and that and that looks good over there, great. Nothing wrong with that. But if you're absolutely shattered and you, you know, you you're trying to do too many things at once, then that's where we need to be a bit more mindful. And I think there's so many people wandering around not pausing and actually asking themselves, is this working for me? You know, and if it is, great. But if it isn't, at what expense? You know, are you uh is it is it energy levels, is it lack of sleep, is it meaningful relationships, you know, what's not working for you that's making you want to go and do these things, there's usually something that either is very, very old and needs to be processed, or you it's fulfilling something, or it's trying to squish that feeling of less than. And less than what compared to what, you know, this is the thing. You know, what are you what are we we we are comparing ourselves, apples and oranges half the time. We're not the same, we're not all the same people. You know, sometimes when you can look at somebody, you know, if I was going to think about, I don't know, running a marathon and then I watch an athlete on the television, yeah, I'm probably gonna feel imposter syndrome thinking, well, flipping heck, I couldn't do that. But I'm not them. I am not I'm somebody who would need to start from lamppost to lamppost, and I'd have to build it up like they would have done. But we see everybody in the fin in the sort of finished form and then think, oh, I couldn't do that.

Fran: 17:27

So then you don't do it, you don't put yourself that's an interesting thing that you've just said, actually, that in their finished form. That's where somebody feels that they've like with putting it back to what I just said, for me it was realizing that I'd got enough training and I I could move forward and start helping other people. So that to me is kind of a finished form. I mean, I like to think that we're still we're always a work in progress, aren't we? But the finished form of that particular section of training that I needed to do, but I recognise that. So yeah, so like you say, if you're looking at somebody that's already gone through that process, you're thinking you should be there already. It's too far a leap, isn't it? It's far too far a leap.

Alison: 18:11

And actually, when you do listen to professional athletes or people in the public eye, you know, they do suffer with imposter syndrome.

Fran: 18:22

Yeah.

Alison: 18:22

And and the reason why is successful people suffer with imposter syndrome. So the more successful you are, the more likely you are to start going, uh, you know, is this real? Is this really happening to me? Is it just a fluke? You know, I've have I just found myself in this kind of position because you know, somebody one day is gonna sort of tap me on the shoulder and say, you know, you don't deserve to be here. So we so so almost the the the the thoughts become more apparent sometimes the more successful you are because you feel like I'm gonna lose this thing that I've got. And that's where you know it doesn't it it doesn't do ourselves any favours to just focus on the feelings that we have. For me, it's what are we gonna do? What what actions are you gonna take to be able to help yourself? And they are the little bits of the jigsaw, lots of different things can help, and everyone's different as well, and also everyone's different. So what you know, some people love journaling, some people love being challenged, you know. Some people like to come and work with probably someone like us and and be really challenged, but some people don't want that, and that's okay.

Fran: 19:30

I think it's it's absolutely fascinating that we're in a pursuit to be individual and be seen as being individual and different, yet we want to be the same, we want to belong.

Alison: 19:42

Yeah, we do. And that's that's sometimes the battle, isn't it? With internal battle, is with we are as humans, we are social beings, we want to be accepted, we want to be part of the troupe, and yet there is, as you said, this great desire and need to be yourself because yes, we can all have, you know, we can all follow the same things, but is that right for you? Often it's not, you know, and again I hear people saying, Oh, yeah, I need to do this because you know somebody's told me it's good for me. It's interesting.

Fran: 20:14

Well, possibly it was good for the other person, it may not fit you. Exactly. But then there's a difference between safely and gently exploring what might work for you. So there's always suggestions, even as coaches, we with permission, we can give suggestions or examples of things. It doesn't necessarily like because I like mindfulness, I talk about mindfulness quite a lot. Yeah, I've got a little share for you, actually, which is a little personal one. A lot of this was as I say, I've I've been challenged with depression for what feels like all of my life. And I know that a few years ago, if somebody had have told me that I could choose happiness and that I could choose to be happy, it'd have made me feel very enraged. And I'm doing this like clenching my fist. It would have made I wouldn't have acted upon it, but it would make me feel very irritated and very annoyed because how can that possibly be true? So at that particular time, that would not have fit me, that would not have been a thing for me because it it felt as though it was a lie, it was impossible, it's not true. Yeah, so there has to be some kind of of bridging that gap, doesn't there?

Alison: 21:32

I think that's the thing where we're under so much pressure to you know to be our authentic selves, to be happy, to be all these things that yeah, you know, they're all brilliant, but they're not they're not like goals, they're they're things to be in the moment with. And that I think is is a skill that we can get better at is being more present. Because you know, what does happiness look like? What has to be in place for us to feel happy? You know, so often we are looking to others to make that fulfilment, and that's a dangerous territory. Sometimes we I hear people say, Oh, well, when I've moved house and when I've got my new job, and when I've got this, and when I've got that, it won't happen unless you are internally okay, because our brains are complex and they throw up all sorts of random thoughts and feelings that we have that sometimes we can know why, and other times it just seems to be random, and we don't really know why. And I think that's when people then start to think they're the only one that that's happening to, which in itself is a trap. You know, that's why I love to come and be guests on podcasts like this, because it helps people go, Oh, them as well. Okay, that's better. That doesn't feel quite as scary because you, you know, again, imposter syndrome, we do genuinely think that no one else is suffering like us. You look around and you'll see all these people you think, oh, they're all living the dream, they're all really happy, they're all doing these things. They won't be. There'll be a mixture of different things that people are navigating constantly. And I think that's where these conversations are really helpful, hopefully, for people to just be like, okay, that doesn't feel quite so overwhelming that it's me only. And then you can start to think about what's your combination of things that are going to work. And it might be what your best friend does, but it might not be. And that's I like that.

Fran: 23:32

It's the combination of things. That's why I said to you, I was building up like my resources, my toolkit, and it's how I support people within you know the type of coaching that I offer. Yeah. And it's about getting that little mixture or that little toolkit of what's right for you, isn't it?

Alison: 23:47

100%. And try things.

Fran: 23:49

Try it, try it on. Yeah.

Alison: 23:51

So again, you know, as a from a brain perspective, if you've if it's something you've never tried before, we've got no reference. So it it's chances are it will make you feel a bit unsure, a bit anxious because I've got no reference. It's an association making machine. So when you haven't got a reference, it will make us feel a bit uh. But nine times out of ten, when you ask somebody, how was it then? and they say, Oh, it was nowhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be. And it's like, there we go, always. So sometimes we've just got to do that thing that works for you to help you push yourself to that next thing that you're trying to achieve. And again, not worrying about what everyone else is doing, just whatever's your next thing, you know. Everybody, one of my favourite writers is um Dr. Wayne Dyer. I don't know if you've come across him, and he has a thing about don't die with the music inside you, you know, whatever you whatever your music is, get it out, get it doing it. You know, there's so many people who always have these hopes and dreams, and they never think they're going to be able to do them. And that's can be through imposter syndrome, you know, nobody will want to do my thing, or and actually it's not true.

Fran: 25:07

Well, it's waiting for that perfect moment.

Alison: 25:09

And that's and then again, that's that can be the perfectionism, which is the um one of the one of the symptoms is you know, oh well, not this month because you know, I'm waiting for this and I haven't quite got this right, and I haven't quite got that, and I need to still look into this. And when what are you waiting for? You know, let's let's have a go and let's see what happens. I think that's my big motto, you know. Let's you can never be perfect. I mean, having done a TEDx, you know, it's it's an unbelievable process, but you know, you have to just trust that you you're ready because you can keep telling yourself you're not ready, you're not ready, you're not ready, but you have to just do it.

Fran: 25:50

I see that lends itself beautifully to the next question that I have for you, which is so you're a TEDx speaker and author. So, how do you prepare mentally and emotionally for presentations? And what would you tell somebody who wants to elevate their public speaking? Like maybe they're they're interested or they want to elevate what they've got.

Alison: 26:17

I mean, when I did my TED talk, I remember as they were announcing me, bearing in mind, you know, is the biggest global platform in the world. And I do remember thinking, wow, I have come a long way. And that didn't happen overnight. And I think that's the first thing that we need to remember. You know, some of these things, if you are challenging your mind, they can't happen quickly. They need to be, I think to use your word, gentle and careful with how we show up and how we do ourselves. Because if we are hard on ourselves, which a lot of people are, so you might have a go at something and then it doesn't quite work out. So then you're super hard on yourself. So then you you've almost damned and downed what you've had a go at. So one of the things that I have always tried to do is, you know, to to yes, to look at what I can improve, but to always be kind of okay with, yeah, that was, you know, that was good. That was a good, that was a good attempt, that was a good practice. So I think being kinder to yourself as you as you are embarking on something like speaking. But I think the other thing that we always need to remember is most people, and and again, we could talk about where it comes from, but most people are terrified of speaking out in public. The majority of people are more scared than those that speak. So if you are going to speak, remember that most of your audience are sitting there thinking, I couldn't do that. She's amazing, I couldn't do that. Look at him up there, I couldn't do that. So you're already the fact you've even got out and got up on that stage or got up in front of those people, you're already ahead of the game. Because most people sit in an audience and say, Oh, I could never do that. So I think that's something really important to remember.

Fran: 28:15

When you say about fears, okay, please correct me if if I've not got this right. So, in in my version of how this is, is that if we're a hearing person, we're born with two fears, and that's loud noises and the fear of falling, and that anything and everything else is either done to us or or by us. So, would you say from a brain's perspective, that's true?

Alison: 28:44

Yeah, yeah, I've not heard it framed like that before. For me, public speaking specifically comes from reading out at school. So the way that I don't know whether it's the same now, but I believe it is, the way that I certainly was encouraged to read at school was in front of your friends when we were learning to read. So it wasn't like we could, we were learning to read. But as humans and as small children, which would have been six maybe your the fear of someone laughing at you, the fear of you getting it wrong, the fear of not being able to do it, the fear of my brain's gonna go frozen, just like people say if they thought they had to speak up in front of a group of people, it's the same thing. So our brains go, remember that experience all those many years ago. Oh my god, that's gonna happen again. Right, okay.

Fran: 29:45

So these this is fear based stuff, and then by that, as something that happened when you were little, your brain has got evidence that the fear is real, real, yep.

Alison: 29:58

So it tracks back you don't Consciously think, oh my god, I'm back in the classroom learning to read, but your subconscious mind is holding on to every single memory that you've ever had. So if you were reading out at school and somebody you you your mate laughed because you said something wrong, your brain remembers that. So then you then you your boss says, Right, I'd like you to present something at this team meeting, and your brain goes, Oh, oh my God, I've got that memory and I can't know. No, no, no. So most people don't like reading, doing anything speaking up in public, because it reminds their unconscious mind of that time. Now, to overcome that, because I was that kid too, I can remember trying to work out which paragraph I would be reading and then try and rehearse it while my friend was reading the one before. So I couldn't do the reading and the listening at the same time. So, you know, we we all have our little memories, don't we, of our childhoods. But they they do shape us, you know, they do, and it's it's no one's fault. It's just that's that's where the brain goes, you know. When you ask people what is it about speaking up, oh, I might make a show of myself, people might laugh, I might not speak clearly, I might not say my words properly. All the things that we would have thought when we were six and seven, learning to read out. And that's the thing with public speaking. Most people have still got that. So to overcome it, we need to be kind to ourselves and we need to give ourselves a different dialogue, a different set of instructions about how it's gonna go and practice, practice, practice.

Fran: 31:39

The interesting the example being about reading as a child, because I've actually it's reminded me, it's reminded me that I took on, I almost took on somebody else's fear because I remember that being in the classroom and having to read out loud, and I would always avoid it. Very shy child and would always avoid it. There was somebody in my class. Now everything goes back to when I was seven, so I'm gonna say I was seven. And the poor lad said the word window instead of widow. I think they were reading like Tom Sawyer or something like that. It was a classic literature book, and the children giggled. And what I took from that was I could pronounce words that read it the wrong word, or pronounce words wrong, and I still do that now. Like I tell myself you don't know how to pronounce this, so I always check words and and things like that. So it wasn't even my fear or or my embarrassing moment, it was somebody else's, but I took it on.

Alison: 32:44

Yeah, because the brain is an association making machine, so it's it's constantly assessing for for situations that it then tries to process. I mean, half of what we think isn't even ours, it's our caregivers, our parents, it's not even ours anyway. You know, I mean someone might have said, oh yes, they're a bit clumsy, and you then let seem to be one of those people that just bangs into everything all the time. You know, it it's it's so powerful. It is our best asset, and yet we have features. You know, if if it was a if it was a piece of tech, they would definitely have gone in and re-changed some of the features because we have features in there that don't really serve us, particularly the way we live today. But actually, its job is to protect. So, you know, if you're if you if you if your brain says, Oh, you might say something wrong, it what it's trying to say is don't put yourself in that position. Now, there are, you know, if you were about to bungee jump off a cliff, then your brain would be screaming at you, rightly so. This is quite dangerous. But what we find is socially and in other situations, our minds are giving us some of these feelings that go with something that actually isn't necessary. It's it's it's a kind of elevated it.

Fran: 34:03

It's a challenging thing to navigate though, isn't it? Because some fears are quite necessary, like you know, like that fear of being mindful of crossing the road or you know, the things that would would help us within danger situations. Yeah, we need a certain level of of fear or anticipation of fear. We do, we otherwise we'd get knocked down. It can't be removed completely, can it?

Alison: 34:29

Nope. But what we so our job is to uh navigate it, is to work with that piece of kit that is say keeping you alive, that is there for all the right reasons, but we but in social situations or you know, you might be in a room and you see somebody and you uh see that they've I don't know, screwed their face up a bit, and you make up that they've screwed their face up because of you. It wasn't anything to do with you, but because we are we take things personally as humans, we find ourselves, you know. I I I said it this morning, I do a little, I've started this new thing on my Instagram where it's called While I Put the Kettle On, and I'm literally giving a tip a day while the kettle's boiling. And today I said, you know, your mind believes everything that you think. Everything. So be careful what you're thinking, or be mindful of what you're following. You know, your thoughts will come, but be mindful. You know, if you have a thought of I'm not good enough, pause, ask yourself, is that really true? Is it really true? And then also in whose eyes? Who are you trying who who's triggering, what's triggering you? It's so complicated. We are complicated, aren't we? We're amazed. I obviously love humans.

Fran: 35:52

Where's the where's the evidence for that and stuff like that as well, isn't it? You know, and my my evidence apparently was something that happened to somebody else, not even me.

Alison: 36:01

But but isn't that a brilliant kind of spot for you? Because as soon as you start to have that feeling, you'd be like, that isn't even mine. And then eventually, you know, you can push that away. You know, a lot of my thoughts when I look back, as I said earlier, to my childhood and how I used to view myself, it was not my view. It was my someone else's view of me that I had adopted, had taken it in to believe that, you know, maybe I wasn't so good, and it wasn't even my thoughts. So you have to work pretty hard at sort of changing the narrative inside us.

Fran: 36:38

And then we could continue talking about levels of identity and it would just go on, like you say, we're we're wonderful creatures, aren't we?

Alison: 36:47

We are, but we we don't always serve ourselves. You know, I often remind ourselves, you know, if you spoke to yourself in a in a down way, you know, if you spoke to your friends like that, you would not have any friends. So what are we doing? You know, what are we doing? What is that in terms? You know, and even when you stump your foot and say, ah, idiot, you know, what what are we doing? We our minds are believing everything. You're an idiot, but that's not true. You've just banged your foot. What are you gonna do differently? And that's where for me it's all those little bits. If you could start to just to be more aware of them, then it changes the whole landscape because eventually it takes a bit of time, but eventually you start to have a different set of thoughts and then it doesn't have the impact.

Fran: 37:38

What's next for you? That's my that's my next burning question. Like curious little being that I am. So what what's next? You've got two minds which you do. So what's next for you?

Alison: 37:51

So I'm so two things really for me. Um I think as you said in your in intro about me, is you know, my desire is to help others almost do what I've done. You know, I want to be living proof that you can, you know, you can have whatever you want. You just it there just isn't a quick fix, like some uh trying to tell you that it's true. So two things for me really. One is obviously I did my TED talk and I want to sh use that to demonstrate, whether that be on a stage with others or whether that's through my work, my programmes, my my workshops and things to to help people see that actually they can have whatever it is they want. I do want to, my topic, which was multi-generations in businesses, I do work with leaders, teams of managers, and I do want to uh use that again as a as not not a new topic, but I do think it's something that people need to pay attention to because I think as these next generations come in, I think we're too quick to write people off, or they're too young, or they're too old. And I'm really interested in developing something along that line so that I can leverage the TED talk because it was a massive undertaking, it was the biggest thing I've ever done in my entire life. So I do want to leverage that and and really help help others, but you know, obviously be able to talk about it in a way that leaves people going, Oh, maybe, maybe I could, you know, whatever their thing is that they want to do.

Fran: 39:25

Yeah. So within that, the the work that you do within your coaching, is that on a kind of more corporate level? Do you take one-to-one clients? Is there any kind of gender base to that at all? Just out of interest?

Alison: 39:40

Yeah, so I don't gender base, I will work with anyone. I do work with individuals, but I tend to work with them. I'm I'm looking to always work with people who are who are prepared to put the work in. So a minimum of six months, 12 months is now my approach. I used to just see people for whatever they needed, and actually that I'm realizing isn't serving them like I want to be able to help them. And then, yeah, I'm have teams, so exec teams in businesses or teams of managers, and I've developed a programme called Leading with the Brain in Mind, and that takes them on a journey to understand their brains and each other's brains, and remembering how it can go wrong when pressure's on, and give them tools to be able to do that. So it's a bit of a mixture. I I do speak at events, um, I've got two conferences next week. Then I can work with uh an exec team or a senior team, and then I do work with individuals as well.

Fran: 40:45

Thank you for for clarifying. Thank you for sharing your wisdom as well. I've loved that. And your honesty, I'm gonna say decades of experience because you've said about like over 30 years, like you know, exploring the mind. Decades of experience, yeah.

Alison: 41:02

Honestly, I look back and think, wow, because a bit like yourself, actually, Fran. I started originally as to train as a counsellor because I wanted to understand myself. And it wasn't until I got there and started the training that I I realized, oh wow, I absolutely love people and I love this whole thing. So that was 30 years ago. I started to train then, and then since then I've trained in all sorts of different types of therapy, NLP the same as yourself, different types of coaching. I've got qualifications coming at me as, you know, and and all of them, probably like yourself, all of my qualifications, each one you have to do 100 hours of training for the for the qualifications. So again, I've got a lot of experience. I did, I worked in the NHS for 24 years before I set up my business, and I've been in business 15 years. So I've learned a lot the hard way, the easy way, the you know, and again, that's I love working with people who are have got a real exciting desire within them, but they don't know kind of how to get out of their own way, you know. So working with entrepreneurs who probably have got so many ideas coming out of their ears, but they need to be anchored a bit and to help to to bring this dream to life. You know, they that they're sort of people I love working for.

Fran: 42:33

Love that. I've I worked for the NHS, but on a contract basis, but it was within the type of care work that did because also did support work. So it's fascinating, isn't it? You know, this journey of life, what it leads us through. It's almost like lots of little revolutions of our own selves, isn't there, within it.

Alison: 42:51

Well, I I think that's a good point just to remember though, that you know, you often again comparing yourself, you might look at somebody who, I don't know, is a dentist and their path is really clear. They have to do this, followed by this, followed by this, followed by this. It's pretty straight line. Yes, you can deviate a little bit, but it's pretty straight line. But a lot of people aren't like that. You know, people will sort of say to me, you know, what's your journey been? And I've changed and pivoted and time and time again, you know, same, same sort of stuff, but pivoted and it's not a straight line. And I think that's where it's really important for people to hear that, because again, you can think, oh, I'll never be able to do that because I've there's so many journ parts of the journey that you've got to go on, but you you learn something new along the way each time you go there. So, you know, I think it's important to remember that, isn't it? That it doesn't have to be a straight line, is I think is what I'm saying there.

Fran: 43:47

Mine's mine's definitely more of a meander.

Alison: 43:50

Me too. And come down some dead ends and back and reverse back because that that wasn't quite right, and then we go again. So yeah, that's that's got to be our message, doesn't it? Is that you keep going, but also you know, yeah, most things lead to something else in some shape or form, and I think not losing sight of that is really important.

Fran: 44:11

Yeah, thank you.

Alison: 44:14

So, what we want is for listeners to pursue their potential, pursue their highest potential, pursue you know, ideas and yeah, find ways, find ways to follow whatever that thing is that you would love to do, and not get overwhelmed with all the things that you might need to do. You know, again, I'm a big fan of chunking things down, creating something that's tangible, and then give, like you said earlier on, give yourself a high five for for the win at the end of the day because you did go and get that form or you did buy that envelope for that form or whatever it might be, you know, again, it's a win. It's still a win. Which acts as a pause, doesn't it?

Fran: 44:55

It acts as a pause to reflect that you've actually done something, you've achieved something, and then you can move forward rather than thinking it's not enough, it's not enough.

Alison: 45:04

Exactly. And that can be that can be triggered by the imposter syndrome, which is what we talked about at the beginning.

Fran: 45:11

Without us planning it. So what I'd like to say now is for anybody interested in learning more about Alison and her work, you can find Alison Blackler at www.tominds.co.uk. Now that's two as in a number two.

Alison: 45:29

Yes.

Fran: 45:30

And there's a little dash minds.co.uk. And you're on Instagram as well, Alison Two Minds. That's Alison the number two minds. Is that the would you say that's the main social media platform that you use?

Alison: 45:44

Um, yeah, I think if you're an individual looking for some tips and some ideas about how you can, you know, develop yourself, then that's where I share lots of things on there. I do have a podcast myself with 50 episodes, which are there too for people to, again, they're all interview-based, so you know, lots of different topics. Because that's the thing, something else I think it's really important is to make sure you be mindful of what you're listening to. Make sure it's good quality. There's a lot of stuff out there that's quite fear-evoking. And I think just having something that you like the sort of format for, or you like the message that's in there, you know, fill your ears with it, fill your brain with it. It's so important because otherwise it can feel like you, you know, the news, for example, is doesn't do us a lot of favours, really, because it's evoking that fear all the time. So for me, it's finding things like these kind of podcasts that give you something meaningful to listen to and hopefully something that you can then take action on to follow up.

Fran: 46:47

It's that in intention of what you want something for. So the intention of for this is listen to a gentle conversation and it may spark some ideas and it may give you things that have been on your mind to let you know that you're not alone. Um, and it's I like it that you that you've said about, you know, be mindful of what you are listening to because it's the intention behind it, isn't it? What is your intention for wanting to listen to a podcast or wanting to consume social media content? Be careful.

Alison: 47:21

Again, it's all good unless it's triggering that imposter, that that fear, that if it's, you know, again, you know, be mindful of what it's doing. If you're on there and it's all nice and it makes you feel good and you like being a cheerleader of other people's successes, go for it. But if it's the opposite and you're looking at everyone else who's doing well and thinking, well, I'm doing rubbish, it's not serving you. So what are you gonna go and listen to? You know, what are you gonna consume so that you can give yourself a break? Otherwise, it's just endless. And I think that's where we sometimes get into spirals, don't we? I hear people sometimes talk about I get lost in in rabbit warrants on social media that's just making you feel rubbish.

Fran: 48:07

Yeah. Why do it? And it can it can equally be a wonderful thing. Like I like to I use the mute button, I use the mute options, I use I like to curate my own feed as such. And I will search for things that I want to look at. So on other social media platforms, for example, it's all funny puppies and things like that, because it it only shows me things like that, because that's all I've searched for on that platform.

Alison: 48:36

Good strategy though, is to I love that you know, I love that idea of curate curating what you want to listen to and watch and and and digest. I love that. I think that's a great strategy because then you go on there, you know you're gonna see things that light you up, you're gonna feel good. Remember, the brain doesn't know the difference between watching some fun puppies and and you smashing your big goal. It in that moment, you can feel good, you can get a good feeling from it. And we are slightly addicted to that feeling. So we need to be to to look for things that are gonna give us that feeling without all the doubt and all the hard work that goes with that.

Fran: 49:16

Could then also blend itself into that instant gratification and things like that, you know. And I I like a little bit of that myself. So we all do. I look at cute puppies. Um, me too. So, what I'd like to say now is if you're interested in more content like this, be sure to visit www.melancholymental.com and that's me. Follow us for the latest updates. And until next time, stay curious, keep igniting your creative potential, and go and find Alison at Two Mines. Ah, thank you. That's okay. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Bye, bye. Thank you for joining me on the Melancholy Coaching Podcast. I'd love you to subscribe for queries or to connect, email info at melancholymentor.com. Until next time, keep igniting your creative potential.